Skip to main content

The congruent chin

A great video from Bill DeSimone (I interviewed him here if you want more ideas on his approach) Superb stuff, you will not find anywhere else!

Comments

Sean said…
Great video. I've got a rotater cuff injury (from running ironically), and I've probably been aggravating it with my chins, specifically a close grip.

This makes it pretty clear that a kipped chin is pretty stupid if one cares about long term shoulder health.
Chris said…
I totally agree about the kipped chin - a very dangerous move.
Anonymous said…
Great vid, but I wonder how his ideas fit with the following observations. The structure of our arms evolved for brachiation when we were in the trees. Monkeys don’t do pull-ups, they swing from arms fully extended in the hanging position. Kids as young as three and four years old do lots of hanging from the monkey bars, then swinging back and forth and then swinging hand to hand. They never try to pull up by flexing the elbow or extending the shoulder, they just swing and hang. This is clearly a very natural and instinctive use of the shoulder. I wonder whether DeSimone would have problems with it.
Chris said…
Todd - Hi.

Bill would have to respond for himself, but I suppose my response woudl be that we are not monkeys. We would have to get into comparative anatomy but I would suspect that our shoulders are different. Just as we do not have the gut of an ape that lives on leaves, we do not have the shoulder of a quadruped that swings through the trees.

Bill is explaining how to do a certain exercise as safely as possible given our anatomy. on the basis of his explanation I cannot see brachiation as being healthy for our human shoulders in the long term.
Anonymous said…
I think Bill has this correctly figured out. I would point out that there is a lot of effort here in trying to make safe a movement out of a movement that is fundamentally not safe. If you look at this from an upper arm range of motion perspective you see that the recommended leaning or arching back at the beginning of the movement is an attempt to shorten range. At the other end of the range, with elbows at sides, the lats are minimally engaged. Compare this with a row - slightly less range at the beginning of the movement but more lat engagement at the end due to the direction of the force. The mechanics are superior and the force production is greater with regards to shoulder safety.

I would offer up this challenge. Establish a baseline of how many chin ups you can do. Then stop doing them entirely and do nothing but rows for two months instead. Then see how many chin ups you can do. I am confident in predicting that you will see no loss of strength in the chin up and your shoulders will be much better off for it.
Anonymous said…
Chris,

I agree that we are not monkeys who move by brachiation and that Bill’s approach is a good one. However, I do think that a full hang with a little swing is a completely natural motion which any kid does spontaneously when they see a bar. Therefore I think the arm is designed to do this. I’m sure it is potentially more stressful than what Bill is advising here - but in the same way that a leg press is safer than jumping – which is also a natural motion but a potential way to cause wear and tear.
Chris said…
thanks Todd. I think you are right - Bill's approach is very much about safety.
Bill DeSimone said…
Thanks for all your interest, people.
Interesting discussion, but I think we have to be careful of context-switching, the whole "natural movement" idea. Maybe monkeys do end up with rotator cuff problems, how would we know? ;)
i remember in Army ROTC, 30 plus years ago, hand walking across a horizontal ladder was one of the fitness tests. The guys who hung and swung did consistently slower times than the ones who kept bent elbows and tight shoulders.
Chris is right, but he doesn't go far enough, safety is the first step. I don't think anyone will have a catastrophic injury with the hang, but I do think it would contribute to some unnecessary wear. Avoiding unintended consequences is more the point.
Thanks,
Bill
Chris said…
Thanks for that Bill

Popular posts from this blog

Dry January

I mentioned a few weeks ago that I was taking part in "Dry January".  I didn't make a big song and dance about it, but I decided to go for a calendar month or so with no alcohol.  A few people have asked me about my experience, so here are a few points. Why take a break from drinking? Alcohol is an interesting topic.  As a drug it is widely accepted in society, central to so much of our socialising and leisure.  There seem to be lots of health benefits - so we are told - yet there are also a lot of problems in terms of health, relationships and lifestyle that come from drinking. Over a few years I'd begun to become aware and then concerned that I was drinking too much and too regularly.  I am in a busy and stressful job and sometimes a glass of wine after work to relax is really helpful.  But over time, one glass became two.  Two glasses became ....I might as well finish the bottle.  A habit got established....and was starting to get too e...

So where have I been?

You will have noticed that this blog has been quiet for a while....  There are a few reasons for that, reasons that I thought I'd list here: WORK -  my day job has been incredibly busy and stressful this year. Working 10-14 hour days the last thing on my mind when I got home was putting something on here.  FACEBOOK/TWITTER - I suppose I've been using other channels to do some of what I used to do here. Quick fire posts pointing to interesting studies or news etc tend to get posted to Twitter (@chrishighcock) or to the Facebook Hillfit group http://www.facebook.com/groups/263083947097000/  REASSESSMENT - I've found myself less comfortable with some of the positions I've taken in the past. Sometimes I'm embarrassed by some of the things I've promoted. I'm not Paleo or low carb. I think Tabata and intervals are misunderstood and misapplied. I cannot really claim to be HIT.   I find myselfunable  honestly to post things on here and pretend that I am some sort o...

Taking up space for a brief update

I've a couple of posts in draft that I will get up soon -  an update / reflection on Dry January and some thoughts on the scheduling benefits of short workouts if your life is busy.  Before that though, I am pointing to something else. However, I wanted to highlight something that is coming this weekend that I've been involved in.   Amber Rogers (Gokaleo and author of Taking Up Space ) has been pulling together a bundle of books from various authors with a common theme, one that I've been pushing here recently.   Keep it simple, avoid the hype, be patient, be consistent and flee the gurus.   I've talked before about how we get obsessed with pushing for more and more, when enough is OK.  I've given my view that so much of the health and fitness internet world is more like a gnostic religion than something that will benefit your life. There are other voices out there saying similar things and I'll be pointing to a bundle of books later this week ...