.......interesting things about fitness, strength, diet and performance.
Sunday, December 5, 2010
One Day MovNat Fundamentals Clinic in Edinburgh with Erwan Le Corre
I had mentioned a few weeks ago that this was coming up. Having interviewed Erwan last year and watched as his profile on the internet has grown since, I was really looking forward to this clinic. The previous week was tough - my Dad had been in hospital and I was not sure that I would be able to get back to Edinburgh to attend the clinic, but thankfully he got out and was improved enough for me to feel OK about leaving my parents and coming back north.
I returned to an Edinburgh which was cloaked in snow - more snow than at any time since 1963 according to some reports. So instead of the sunshine and tropical scenery that you normally see in Erwan's videos, this was cold!
There were still classes going on at the gym when we all gathered there so we chatted outside for a while in the snow. Despite the weather Erwan turned up in his Vibrams! Guys had come from all over the UK - London, York, Shropshire, Cumbria, Glasgow (great to meet Craig)- as well as further afield: Belgium and Hungary.
Hi Chris, great meeting you at the MovNat Clinic and enjoying reading through your brilliant blog! Here is a quick interview with Erwan on the importance of running to MovNat and vice versa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfmVhBiZ27U
chris, forgive me, but what do you mean by we must learn how to walk or how to balance? i would very much appreciate an example of how such a "skill" was taught in order to be learned?
Sorry mc I probably did not express things well. Erwan's position is that while we can all balance or walk or whatever we can develop our skill at those processes - like your recent series on getting better at the squat. To support that, we did a number of balance drills - probably not as rigorous or structured as you would get in Z Health for example, but I think he was trying to get the idea of optimising these skills, becoming more efficient through practice.
Great article, thanks for the summary. The idea of learning these skills is great. I would like to pick more of this up myself. The "skill" of sitting in my desk chair typing into a keyboard needs to expand to more meaningful things. If he comes to the South East US I am going.
One thought on this is when you look at Erwan in pictures and movies you immediately see his leanness and muscularity. From this it is implied that MovNat is a great fitness method. This may be the case, but it also may be that it works when you do it 4 hours a day. For sure he doesn't have the runners physique that would come from hours of running a day, so that is good, but it may not be an optimal method for us working stiffs. For the skill training I also wonder how much is required? Practice a couple of times per week and leave the fitness aspect to something akin to resistance training sounds reasonable to me, but I am no expert.
Bottom line. I get the skill aspect but wonder about MovNat as an efficient fitness regimen.
Jeff its classic logical fallacy to think that an individual has a specific body type because of the how they train it is always just as possible their physical make up is what allowed them to thrive in a given activity. Erwan is naturally lean and he developed his muscularity years before Movnat. When I was training with him he talked about his curiosity to see athletes who had been primarily developed through Movnat as he had developed his through many other pursuits.
Chris I don't see how one can subscribe to tenants of both Movnat and HIT their contrary to each other. HIT fits exactly in the realm of reductionist machine training that Erwan advocates against. While a HIT paradigm would indicate that what Erwan purposes is not optimally effective, dangerous paleo reenactment. One could practice what Movnat as recreation and continue doing HIT I suppose but the two philosophies seem very opposed to me.
Rafe - I don't think that HIT and MovNat are so contrary.
MovNat is about skill development. HIT in the interviews I've done is always clear that skill development is fine but different from strength development. As I tried to stress you can get stronger at pullups but as Erwan says you still need to learn to climb. You need the skill, the technique.
I really do not see the two as the opposites that you present.
Jeff - thanks for the comment. As I said to Rafe I saw it all as about skill development. HIT and strength training has its place.....but there is also value in learning to apply strength, with these skills.
Crhis I disagree with the statement that being good at pull ups will not improve your climbing. Parts of climbing are very technical, but I have seen guys who are very strong from other activities simply bypass the technical aspects.
Another analogy is martial arts, a hip toss is very specific skill but having a 400 pound deadlift essentially gives me a much greater margin for error in my application of the technique. My martial arts coaches constantly constantly cued me to try and hold my athletiscm back to better allow technique development the SAID principle can be overstated.
I think the primary point that Erwan and I agree on, is that high skill movement transfers better to low skill movement then vice versa, learning to climb 5.10 will develop a significant amount of upper body pulling strength, it does not follow that being able do a pull up with 1.5xBW will mean you can climb five ten. There is a degree of transfer both ways but complex movement transfers better to simple movements then simplified movement then Vice Versa. Its more developmental. A practice like movnat to me will develop an adaptable overall physical capacity much more effectively then one like HIT.
More then Erwan at least in in our last conversations I do believe there is some real value to simple progressive strength training. Overall I believe the pursuit of more complex, playfull, and utile physical skills in the long run should take precedence over simple attribute development.
It was probably not as structured as it sounds. A lot of the balance drills were ad hoc - balancing on beams etc, walking along a thin bar. It was not so much that particular drills were employed to improve elements of gait, more that the drills were aimed at making us more mindful about out movement and our gait.
11 comments:
Hi Chris, great meeting you at the MovNat Clinic and enjoying reading through your brilliant blog! Here is a quick interview with Erwan on the importance of running to MovNat and vice versa: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfmVhBiZ27U
Keep in touch!
Naeem
chris,
forgive me, but what do you mean by we must learn how to walk or how to balance?
i would very much appreciate an example of how such a "skill" was taught in order to be learned?
many thanks
mc
Sorry mc I probably did not express things well. Erwan's position is that while we can all balance or walk or whatever we can develop our skill at those processes - like your recent series on getting better at the squat. To support that, we did a number of balance drills - probably not as rigorous or structured as you would get in Z Health for example, but I think he was trying to get the idea of optimising these skills, becoming more efficient through practice.
Does that help?
Naeem
good to meet you too - thanks for your work on the running.
Chris
Hey Chris,
Great article, thanks for the summary. The idea of learning these skills is great. I would like to pick more of this up myself. The "skill" of sitting in my desk chair typing into a keyboard needs to expand to more meaningful things. If he comes to the South East US I am going.
One thought on this is when you look at Erwan in pictures and movies you immediately see his leanness and muscularity. From this it is implied that MovNat is a great fitness method. This may be the case, but it also may be that it works when you do it 4 hours a day. For sure he doesn't have the runners physique that would come from hours of running a day, so that is good, but it may not be an optimal method for us working stiffs. For the skill training I also wonder how much is required? Practice a couple of times per week and leave the fitness aspect to something akin to resistance training sounds reasonable to me, but I am no expert.
Bottom line. I get the skill aspect but wonder about MovNat as an efficient fitness regimen.
Thanks again,
jeff
Jeff its classic logical fallacy to think that an individual has a specific body type because of the how they train it is always just as possible their physical make up is what allowed them to thrive in a given activity. Erwan is naturally lean and he developed his muscularity years before Movnat. When I was training with him he talked about his curiosity to see athletes who had been primarily developed through Movnat as he had developed his through many other pursuits.
Chris I don't see how one can subscribe to tenants of both Movnat and HIT their contrary to each other. HIT fits exactly in the realm of reductionist machine training that Erwan advocates against. While a HIT paradigm would indicate that what Erwan purposes is not optimally effective, dangerous paleo reenactment. One could practice what Movnat as recreation and continue doing HIT I suppose but the two philosophies seem very opposed to me.
Rafe - I don't think that HIT and MovNat are so contrary.
MovNat is about skill development. HIT in the interviews I've done is always clear that skill development is fine but different from strength development. As I tried to stress you can get stronger at pullups but as Erwan says you still need to learn to climb. You need the skill, the technique.
I really do not see the two as the opposites that you present.
Jeff - thanks for the comment. As I said to Rafe I saw it all as about skill development. HIT and strength training has its place.....but there is also value in learning to apply strength, with these skills.
Crhis I disagree with the statement that being good at pull ups will not improve your climbing. Parts of climbing are very technical, but I have seen guys who are very strong from other activities simply bypass the technical aspects.
Another analogy is martial arts, a hip toss is very specific skill but having a 400 pound deadlift essentially gives me a much greater margin for error in my application of the technique. My martial arts coaches constantly constantly cued me to try and hold my athletiscm back to better allow technique development the SAID principle can be overstated.
I think the primary point that Erwan and I agree on, is that high skill movement transfers better to low skill movement then vice versa, learning to climb 5.10 will develop a significant amount of upper body pulling strength, it does not follow that being able do a pull up with 1.5xBW will mean you can climb five ten. There is a degree of transfer both ways but complex movement transfers better to simple movements then simplified movement then Vice Versa. Its more developmental. A practice like movnat to me will develop an adaptable overall physical capacity much more effectively then one like HIT.
More then Erwan at least in in our last conversations I do believe there is some real value to simple progressive strength training. Overall I believe the pursuit of more complex, playfull, and utile physical skills in the long run should take precedence over simple attribute development.
"we did a number of balance drills - probably not as rigorous or structured as you would get in Z Health for example, "
i got that - that was clear - but i guess what's not is how the two connect? can you give an example of such a drill?
and what you did to see if it made your walking or whatever better?
tnx so much,
mc
It was probably not as structured as it sounds. A lot of the balance drills were ad hoc - balancing on beams etc, walking along a thin bar. It was not so much that particular drills were employed to improve elements of gait, more that the drills were aimed at making us more mindful about out movement and our gait.
Post a Comment